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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Astra G Early 2000 X16XEL Manual with A/C --- CG module ECM

ScanMaster with an ELM327 Interface (KWP2000 protocol only):

Is P1530 A/C Clutch Control Relay likely to be exactly as it describes? (shows it being in/behind the instrument panel? E31.12 in TIS... where is it?)

Cleared it a few times today, dont believe it to have come back since? and the central locking works better! :-/ odd?


KTS 5 series:

Picking up from... part of the ECM... the radiator fan controller... on a KTS,

Shows a completely different DTC related to the pressure sensor for the a/c? its got like 19/20% but says its capacity is like 270kPA then leaps to 560kPA... well it does/did need a recharge... didnt seem unusual... but makes sense if its a pressure switch that needs resetting?

Cleared those codes and it had some old ones, which said fan 1 and 2 and engine had been disconnected and the immoby had P1612 signal implausible, but may have come back... i assume thats using KWP82? Havent re-checked using the KTS recently...


Physical Symptoms:

The clutch is slow at engaging, or doesnt engage properly... when the button is pressed (fair enough, dont need to use the button!)

after the error code for the pressure sensor is present, the radiator fans seem to be restricted to stage 1... they've got a normal voltage with a seemingly normal 5v feedback (standard Bosch)? As both fans seem stable and will work at normal speed (upto stage 3) after clearing the DTC's --- i assume the problem wouldnt be with the fans if a DTC clearing makes them run fine and the DTC's dont appear to be connected to it?

Interesting finding: Half the coolant gets released back into the coolant expansion tank after clearing the DTC... possibly overflowed the header tank and into the thermo hose or would that be normal for that to be full? seems quite full in the hose and theres been a dribble leak near the ECT sensor/thermo housing hose... (very minor to be honest, temp gauge goes up and down a little with the fans, but not too bad)



im testing it by driving it without using the blower or a/c (to rule out the instrument panel "E31.12 relay") and will see if its an ECU cycle overnight tonight that uses the circuit...

anywhere/anything else that I havent thought of? the thermostat? a stupid multiplug?

If the error code comes back, its quite possible for this to drain my battery over night, im thinking it might be the ECM draining it, as it is a mid '99 CG code ECM! (13 years run aint too bad!)

Removing the fuses for coolant and AC overnight... doesnt have any effect


What should I go for first? As I'm sure someone will have seen this behaviour before?

I've gone and ordered an op-com, to see how that handles the ECM issues im having...
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
Well I got an a/c recycle, vac and recharge done at kwik fit (wasnt half as expensive as I thought it'd be... good thing too, because it was expensive for what use i'll get out of it)

it had a leak test included too... but no dye..

an extra 10ml of oil for the compressor (even though it said replace the oil... I dont really care about the AC working right now, just dont want the battery draining to death overnight... etc)

the pressures gone up a little, a more stable reading of 425 - 475kpa, 20% refrigerant capacity (that nearly 200kPa, and 1% refrigerant must have made all the difference), the voltages for the pressure sensor are now supply: 4.86 (a slight overvoltage there) and signal: 0.45 (slightly lower)

0v feedback voltages for the fans (instead of 5v, i assume 'emergency mode' --- but without the stage 5 fans --- must have been activated on the ECM as it steps down the voltage between two of the terminals)

no DTCs show up, apart from the usual engine speed sensor signal not present (I wasnt moving at the time)

pressure on the LP was 4 bar.. HP was 5 bar and the oil pressure was about 5.3bar

I would assume I have either a small leak somewhere and a blockage or a stuck closed expansion valve (theres alot of condensation near the evap.) oh and possibly the ECM requires ripping out!

as far as im aware the compressor engages okay now as it will not when in emergency mode? no visible blockages / crack in the condenser as far as I can see...



I'm no expert with A/C or vaux stuff but when your A/C doesnt meet the following (with a CG module), expect problems:

280kPa with 20% refrigerant

Signal Voltage should be 0.5 - 4.5 volts

Calculated pressure between 2.8 and 34 bar

The earth for the ECM desperately requires cleaning... usually the engine distribution / blower earths...


I guess thats partially why its been superseeded with the WG module?


And incase you think you can fix the air con yourself... never play with A/C systems, they can be extremely dangerous!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Interesting, cleaning the earths helped majorly, they werent that bad to be honest...

Regassing the A/C made the feedback voltages from the fans display properly... rad fan needs replacing soon 13.5v feedback! lol

reset and relearning the IAC(stepper) helped stop the battery drain problem too... seemingly the maf sensor wasnt tight at some point! odd!

it made the A/C display a better pressure! (hope the condenser / o rings / expansion valve can hold it stable, otherwise im going for an evac!)

clearing a CLock module of 'low voltage whilst locking' helped too! :)

See how it goes tomorrow, been running alright today! lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Whilst the battery was on charge, so it was disconnected for at least half hour:

Noticed theres a bit of logged water / gunk in the wiring harness below the ECM on the fans... cleaned the gunk and drained the water, seemingly staying at a more stable battery voltage, and the AC relay now seems to operate! (we'll see tomorrow lol)

still getting an unusually high feedback on the fan, so yeah, that needs replacing, but also the temp sensor is showing 98 C before the fans are kicking in on stage 1, so definately getting that fan and maybe the harness replaced / reterminated and the leaky cooling module!
 

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The feedback voltage from the fans is the actual voltage they are currently running at, and could be anything up to 14.5V.

Anything over 5v is not a 'high' voltage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
i thought return meant it was feedback voltage, which would earth?

or is it the voltage return from the circuit?

either way push fan has 13.5v return (for a 12 volt fan) and sucker has 5v return and I have an excessive power drain...

I assume both fans are supposed to kick in when the coolant temp is 98 but displays 93 on the dash? and on a higher stage than stage 1, to avoid an overheat when its in emergency mode?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Just got these return since yesterday... for my door locking... opcom

00048 - Low Voltage During Locking
Present

00050 - A/D Converter Failure
Not present

00018 - Sun Roof/Window Signal Short To Ground Or Open Circuit
Not present

00016 - Central Door Locking System Motor Current High
Not present


Battery is currently 9v (10v if ignitions not on)

For the love of holy F***in door locking!!! LOL
 

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A.O.N - Approved Vauxhall Specialist (Anthony)
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i thought return meant it was feedback voltage, which would earth?

or is it the voltage return from the circuit?

either way push fan has 13.5v return (for a 12 volt fan) and sucker has 5v return and I have an excessive power drain...

I assume both fans are supposed to kick in when the coolant temp is 98 but displays 93 on the dash? and on a higher stage than stage 1, to avoid an overheat when its in emergency mode?
It is the voltage return from the circuit.

As only either the resistor input, or the 'direct' input are used individually, rather than both at the same time, I think the cooling module uses the unused circuit between it and the fan motor to measure the feedback voltage.

So, in low speed mode, voltage is supplied through the resistor to the motor, feedback is measured on the high speed wire back to the cooling module. Vice versa in high speed mode.

Is the return voltage of the sucker fan 5V under all operating modes (high/low speed)? Resistor OK 13.5V return for the pusher is fine and within specified limits of between 0 and 14.5V! ;)

I seem to remember, and it has been a fair while since I worked on an Astra-G, that the fans can be controlled by PWM (Pulse width modulation) to vary the speeds. If this is the case, then 5V feedback at low speed is quite plausible.

I cannot find a listing of which fans should run in which power stage, but a safe assumption is:

0 - both fans off
1 - sucker low speed
2 - pusher low speed
3 - both low speed
4 - sucker high speed
5 - both high speed

In emergency mode, both fans should run at high speed.

As the coolant temp approaches 100 deg, I would expect the sucker fan to start on low speed, then ramp up to high as the temperature continues to rise. The older two-stage radiator thermo-switches on the Astra-F (also fitted with X16XEL engine) used to cut in at about 95 deg and 101 deg on low and high speeds respectively.
 

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A.O.N - Approved Vauxhall Specialist (Anthony)
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Just got these return since yesterday... for my door locking... opcom

00048 - Low Voltage During Locking
Present

00050 - A/D Converter Failure
Not present

00018 - Sun Roof/Window Signal Short To Ground Or Open Circuit
Not present

00016 - Central Door Locking System Motor Current High
Not present


Battery is currently 9v (10v if ignitions not on)

For the love of holy F***in door locking!!! LOL
What is the actual battery voltage - does it match what the CDL ECU reports?

If the A/D converter failure code is anything to go by, I would expect not! This chip is used to convert the actual battery voltage into a signal that can be used by the microprocessor. Bad D/A converter = incorrect readings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
battery voltage is accurate. as the battery has flattened itself slowly overnight...

i dont have a sun roof, so i'm thinking window lifters? and the boot motor i know is a bit 'iffy' about locking

Recorded some live data, doing key sync, lock, deadlock and unlock... when the battery was okay:

http://www.tgtbt-online.com/Livedata-CDL201205021908.xls


Cant seem to find the control unit to check the wires... It's probably right infront of me!?
 

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A.O.N - Approved Vauxhall Specialist (Anthony)
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battery voltage is accurate. as the battery has flattened itself slowly overnight...

i dont have a sun roof, so i'm thinking window lifters? and the boot motor i know is a bit 'iffy' about locking

Recorded some live data, doing key sync, lock, deadlock and unlock... when the battery was okay:

http://www.tgtbt-online.com/Livedata-CDL201205021908.xls


Cant seem to find the control unit to check the wires... It's probably right infront of me!?
The sunroof/window lifter refers to the total closure output to the windows - brown/black wire from the CDL ECU.

Have you traced the battery drain to the central locking then? The motors are only connected to the supply momentarily - if they were always connected and drawing power, they would fail in a short time.

The control unit is behind the drivers side kick panel - where the bonnet release lever is.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
it could be the wiring harness for the fans/ac sensor... as cleaning the gunk and water out has managed to at least lessen the drain to a slow one...

Fuse 2 under the dash no longer blows... got rid of the P code and the fan feedback became more accurate... and no faults picked up on the ECM since the aircon got regassed and the harness de-flooded... heres some output I recorded 10 mins after the central locking.... from the ECM (with the engine running @2k to get the temp up):

www.tgtbt-online.com/Livedata-ECM201205021918.xls


Havent traced it back with a multimeter yet, but I know its only dropping the voltage when the keys are out and out of range (the range got smaller since the boot motor unlocking issue, fuel cap locks and unlocks fine)... and seemingly when its cold/wet outside its worse. but this time its dropped less, but theres no signs of flooding on the harness...

and the fans only kick in when the ignitions on...

the alternator passes a ripple test, pumps out fine increments roughly to the sample etc
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
little bit of WD40 on the boot mech. and its working properly! (for now)

water in the fan wiring harness Ideally need to find GM Part No. 968 537-1 (probs from vaux's wiring harness --- a different part no.)

strange thing i noticed... plugging in the 30amp into the front fogs by accident and removing the central locking fuse (which i intended to put it in - made the voltage run better and more stable than ever before!) (the sidelights blew though, got the replacements though!)

After correcting this, because the central locking module wasnt powered...
Then i noticed the AC/DC converter (battery voltage from CDL module) was close to the -0.2v threshold... so under by about -0.2 most the time!

although theres no errors logged *checking CDL module and wiring harness for flooding.... again.... tomorrow*
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
interesting, I fixed the central locking issues (was the boot catch solenoid over currenting), which helped with the battery drain problem (but not fully... or much)

Im now getting sporadic errors on the cooling module (which sometimes wont even let me connect to the cooling module using opcom)

Such as P1530 - AC pressure sensor signal - High Input (signal lead)
present

--- SHOULD kick into emergency mode according to TIS, but doesnt --- indicates the AC relay not working properly?

I get the normal no engine RPM signal when keys are only in the ignition...


This Was also stored in the engine ECU when only on ignition:
P1530 - AC request line - high
not present



Revs dont hit 1500 rpm, and rarely 1100rpm, when air cons activated, on Opcom: heres the results --- http://www.tgtbt-online.com/Livedata-AC201205031634.csv

---- See Row 540 and below, in the file, for air con stuff...

Now, replacing the module is fairly straightforward & easy.... but I have a feeling its more the previously water logged wiring... WHICH ones shall i take a peeps at first? fans/ac wiring? engine ECU to module?

I know the wiring loom for the fans from the cooling module fills with water (when its ****in it down) on the wheel arch side... opposite where the Code is stamped on it (faces the bumper)...

isnt the 3 terminals for the pressure sensor on the OTHER wiring loom(closest to the bumper)?

Pressure sensor signal is at 17 / 18% at the mo (recently auto gassed and at about 500kPa / 5bar on the readout)

And its definately holding coolant somewhere because of it! after clearing the P1530 code, which changes... its released back to the expansion tank... there is a little bit of white smoke at 4k rpm which could be due to the ECT sensor (or its wirin) / thermo... doubtful it'd be the gasket

2000 (v reg) model and its had blue coolant from the previous owner...

Any ideas guys?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Just a quick update, loads of muck in the wiring harness, and also the fan/ac wiring harness was one hell of a ***** to get back on...

ended up breaking the plastic casing on the wiring harness, mind you it used to fill up with water so creating a straight through system would only cause corrosion or a puddle.... if it was to reflood!


although now its had a replacement ECM, it says the feedback is greater for fan1 (blower) 13.9v instead of 13.5v


also had implausible signal for ECT (knew about that, need to do a coolant change at some point...)

The AC appeared to kick in on the relay test, so the cutoff relay works... but would only increase the revs to 1500 once, so i assume there is an issue with the air con (probably the pressure sensor or a few others... lol)


Getting the kick panel off means taking the seat out as its latched into the other panel, doesnt it... to get to the central locking system unit?

still getting the central locking issues... 18 amps, with one of the motors high current apparently, short/open to window/sunroof circuit, and A/D converter failure. (it can sometimes go 0.4 out of the actual battery voltage)

frick me! the drivers door lock is the short!!! (problem on deadlocking position mechanically --- temp fix WD40!)

the A/D converter probably still needs work doing to it, but it matches the ECM's battery voltage readout now...

Interesting, there was more than 9 volts in the battery, but something was preventing the interior lights, dash lights coming up and the ciggy lighter (as it will show aslong as it has more than 9 volts...

something is causing central locking module to have an A/D converter failure error and a central locking motor high current, should the window/sunroof have inactive 12V? switching to 0V mechanically locking using the drivers door... whilst deadlocking/when the windows go up (CL Module).

after that a low voltage on locking....

its about 15 / 16 amps even when locking and 6/6.4 amps after locking... cleaned the drivers side earth for the central locking module
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
well the resistor popped in the central locking unit... the relays started to bubble, the switch too , the transistors started to shrink... and I guess with no resistance it was an open circuit...

not bad considering it was made 11/99...

reduced it down to 15 / 16amps now instead of 17, so i'm happy :) battery staying stable!

for the love of central door locking and ECMs!
 
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